Paul Elam versus Daryush Valizadeh

This missive is prompted by Paul Elam’s post here. Mr. Elam is answering critics on reddit (yes, that apparently warrants Mr. Elam’s prompt attention) regarding an interview with Daryush Valizadeh (also known as Roosh) by Mumia Ali published at A Voice for Men. Critics of Mr. Valizadeh oppose much of what he advocates, including using the usual psychology of women to manipulate them into sexual encounters. Valizadeh also writes guides for so-called love tourism, visiting other countries to meet women better than what may be easily found in the USA.

The thrust of Mr. Elam’s defense of the Valizadeh interview appears to be as follows.

He is a notable person in the world of modern men, …I figure it only appropriate and fair to let him have this temporary unabridged platform here.

I think it’s useful at this point to provide you a smattering of Valizadeh’s quotes from the interview for reference before proceeding with additional thoughts from Elam. [These quotes are, admittedly, substantially out of context, although I’ve placed them in order.]

I think my background has led to a lack of attachment to America and the ability to view it more objectively than most.

Game haters don’t understand that the alternative of Game can mean no sex… possibly ever.

I think Bang did well because it was practical …I spoke in plain language and approached the problem logically without advising guys to make drastic changes …My approach to Game is not designed just for extroverts.

Game alone as a movement or lifestyle is dead…

Feminists will vehemently criticize any behavior which increases a male’s sexual options while praising a behavior which increases a female’s sexual options.

…a lot of confused men buy into the anti-Game arguments and don’t even give a honest chance to a field of study that would greatly increase their mating success with only moderate levels of use.

I prefer to get my working model of human relationships from what we can see and experience …

Sex positivity is used by women to rationalize their sluttiness or to “discover” their “inner self” and beauty. Game is …used by men …to achieve the very concrete and definable goal of having sex with a woman or entering a relationship with one. [Emphasis mine.]

Game is a functional strategy to achieve sexual relations with women, including family formation, [Emphasis mine.] while sex positivity is a feminist paradigm that aims to masculinize women with the inevitable result of delaying family formation.

The opposition to Game [opposes] ideas that haven’t even been advocated in the 21st century. A lot of Game critics …do this because they need to misinform sexless men that Game is dangerous so that they don’t become future enemies of a narrative [squeezing the] remaining drop of masculinity Western society has left.

…I teach guys to optimize their appearance as much as possible while starting a bodybuilding program. Some men are born butt ugly, unfortunately, but a Game program will at least increase their results than if they did nothing.

I wouldn’t be surprised if [black African American] representation on my sites is greater than the general population.

…I have noticed …the presence of pro-white sentiments that [blacks] see as anti-black or even racist. Many manopshere bloggers …make openly hostile sentiments towards minorities, especially when it comes to inter-racial relationships involving white women.

…my gut instinct is to say that there are so few red pill black men (compared to white men) that there isn’t yet a critical mass for a strong black section of the manosphere.

If I can be blamed for anything, it’s that it is easier for me to see the bad than the good, but that fact doesn’t take away from accurate observations that a large percentage of experienced men agree with.

Feminism is an ideology that wants to remove all accountability and responsibility of women for their actions, no matter how immoral, reprehensible, or damaging to society.

All of this places an undue and unfair burden on men to bend over and please women at a cost of being labeled a misogynist…

The end result of this is that men stop interacting with women.

So, there you have it, in highly abridged form. Game is a way for men to get at women, there are issues within the community, but the enemy is feminism and its adherents. With all that out there, here’s what Mr. Elam has to say about Mr. Valizadeh.

…Roosh has talked a lot of smack about MRAs.

… I find so little merit in the concept of PUA and why I see little benefit in it for most men.

I still think shows, pretending to be something you are not in order boost your “effectiveness” with women is just a hair-brained alternative to the more sensible and simpler path of owning your life and your standards without compromise. No acting required. No gamesmanship. No trying to pass shit tests while pretending you are not selling yourself out. Just a strong rudder on your morality ship, with a skipper that acts like one.

Roosh apparently says he moved overseas to have sex with a better class of women. It seems strange to me, this apparently powerful force to change women called geography. With all respect to Roosh, [by which Mr. Elam means absolutely no respect whatsoever] it is a lot more about what you attract than in where you live.

That is not to say that what people like Roosh have to say is not at all useful. … I have heard …about “Inner Game”… But that is hardly a visible entity in the PUA community so far. …some better efforts to market it would be helpful.

You may compare and contrast. In my opinion, Mr. Elam misrepresents Mr. Valizadeh. You may think differently.

That said, I am eternally fascinated by the opinions of Paul Elam. Unlike the Dark Enlightenment, Mr. Elam has not yet concluded that there are “no enemies to the right.” We men are all much the worse for Mr. Elam’s intransigence and conspicuous intentional blindness regarding the value of a united front against feminism. I think Mr. Elam’s tactic springs from his politics. While he may be overtly anti-feminist, this does not mean he favors men. He’s looking for an egalitarian society. A truce with women, hopefully leading to a long-lasting peace. Like so many men, his loyalty to the progressive doctrine of equality betrays his own civilization’s self-interest.

Feminism seeks to disenfranchise and debase men to the detriment of both men and women. We’ve got a solid 50 years history to back that, plus another 50 years that show the roots of that feminist movement. If you’re coming at feminism thinking you can play the victim, you’ll find yourself some rude realities. Chief among these is that women do not favor victims. Game, despite its faults (and it does have faults), does not coddle men with the blanket of victimhood. The expectation is that women generally behave as women, that the behavior of women is predictable, especially within a sexually charged environment, and that wise men would do well to adopt behaviors when in the company of women (and men) that play to the preferences and predispositions of women. This is not “pretending you are not selling yourself out.” [Gods! The Grammar!] This is adapting to your environment and playing the part appropriate to the milieu. You, a man, want a woman. Women want men. Now, pay attention to what women think is manly and also which men women choose. To be chosen by a woman, you must be a man women choose. That, by the way, is called inner game.

Mr. Elam, in case he hasn’t yet understood: inner game is Game. The difference between what Mr. Elam advocates and what Mr. Valizadeh advocates is merely this: Valizadeh pays close attention to the other side of that restaurant table because he’s already mastered himself as a man. Mr. Elam says:

As far as helping men, it is my experience that men who develop a strong sense of self by drawing lines in the sand about what they will and won’t accept from women, and from themselves, usually don’t need it. They are doing just fine.

The challenge is that until men develop that strong sense of self by overcoming repeated failures and experiencing success, they continue to be unable to achieve the confidence necessary to establish personal boundaries with women. Valizadeh and other PUA’s provide the know-how to achieve that success. Mr. Elam and the MRA’s should help PUA’s, or get out of the way.

2 responses to “Paul Elam versus Daryush Valizadeh

    • Richard Dawkins, a man with faults, wrote a book called “The God Delusion.” The premise, if the title isn’t obvious enough, is that belief is deity is delusional.

      So it is with belief in universal equality and universal human utility. Fortunately, both atheists and men have an advantage over theists and women: we can see what is by ignoring the delusion of what we wish to observe. We know, for instance, that no man may substitute for a woman in that fundamental utility each sex possesses, nor may a woman substitute for a man. Further, there are many other functions – the details about which we may reasonably argue – for which men are better suited than women and women better suited than men. These differences may be exploited in the economic sense so that darkly enlightened couples, families, and extended alliances of men and women may obtain advantage over competing people who choose to ignore these differences in favor of a delusion that such differences cannot be economically exploited to achieve relative success.

      So, if I, with my wife and family and allies, exploit this known difference to achieve profit (defined broadly to include accumulating social capital) exceeding that of people fallen prey to the delusion of “progressivism and the mantra of equality,” then my long-term success will out-strip my competitors’ and my family and allies will inherit the earth.

      Isn’t that what the meek do?

Don't bother.

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